|
Post by TomBeasley on Jun 19, 2009 10:23:15 GMT
Wow. God was a massive narcissist.
|
|
Josh
Experienced Novelist
Posts: 78
|
Post by Josh on Jun 20, 2009 0:20:51 GMT
Wow. God was a massive narcissist. Well, you'd think the person who would be self obsessed enough to make up god was probably pretty full of themselves, or hell if there actually was a god if we was king of the universe I'd imagine he'd be in love with himself.
|
|
Tomoe
Beginner Novelist
She Who Never Smiles
Posts: 14
|
Post by Tomoe on Jun 26, 2009 18:51:23 GMT
I asked a Christian about it once (I myself am an Atheist, and Bisexual, for the record), and he said that Leviticus is Jewish, not Christian, and therefore Christianity is not "homophobic".
Seeing as how we were talking about whether or not the BIBLE was homophobic, I was a bit peeved.
The Bible, specifically the Old Testament, is full of homophobic rules. However, the New Testament says little or nothing on the subject, and what's in there is implied.
|
|
|
Post by RabbitDrive on Jun 27, 2009 16:40:57 GMT
I asked a Christian about it once (I myself am an Atheist, and Bisexual, for the record), and he said that Leviticus is Jewish, not Christian, and therefore Christianity is not "homophobic". Seeing as how we were talking about whether or not the BIBLE was homophobic, I was a bit peeved. The Bible, specifically the Old Testament, is full of homophobic rules. However, the New Testament says little or nothing on the subject, and what's in there is implied. The old testament is in the Christian bible. If they wish to distance themselves from it, then what's stopping them getting rid of it or at least all the stupid homophobic parts? They can't defend themselves if it's what they preach. That's called hypocrisy. ;D
|
|
Skipper
Beginner Novelist
Posts: 22
|
Post by Skipper on Jul 12, 2009 23:05:37 GMT
I didn't read this thread completely, but here's my take on the matter:
Homosexuality is not natural. This really isn't a point worth debating. The Bible agrees with it, but that never gets anywhere in a debate with atheists. Nevertheless, even from an evolutionary standpoint, it isn't natural. Natural selection says that homosexuality as a biological characteristic cannot survive. Why? Because homosexuals don't reproduce.
Now, why would the Bible consider it a sin? Well, as I just explained, it isn't natural nor beneficial to the human race, therefore not a biological characteristic. And if it isn't a biological characteristic, and can't be passed on (as homosexuals don't reproduce), then how would someone end up "being homosexual"? They can't. The only possibility is if it is some kind of freak disability caused by some highly unlikely malfunction in someone's DNA. Even mental disorders are more likely to be hereditary than random. Trauma-induced mental disorders such as Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder are almost always outgrown within a few years.
Therefore, it is a choice. Now think about this: What if everyone in the world was homosexual? You guessed it, the entire human race would become extinct after a single generation. Does that really sound like an "okay" thing to any of you? If God were to speak out against homosexuality, it is most certainly not without good reason. Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? Homosexuality for the people there was normal. Well, soon after Lot and his family left, the place was completely destroyed. It wasn't just homosexuality, though, that caused this -- that was the least of their sins.
Another thing to consider is the fact that most of the OT was passed down by word of mouth, and some of it could have been embellished over time, but I'm not one to rely on that alone. Allow me to reference Ancient Babylonia. It's ruler, Hammurabi, had his own set of laws carved into a pillar. Some of the script can be read today. It is the one of the most in-depth law system of those ancient times, second only to the Bible. This suggests that perhaps some of the Bible's laws were simply tradition. We know for a fact that it was the way of the culture of that time and place. Babylonian laws aren't that unlike the Bible's. The only difference: the Bible's laws are a lot softer. Mayhap God's laws were made to soften up the Israelites' usual laws (They couldn't do anything too radically different, unless they wanted to be wiped out within a year.), or perhaps they weren't all necessarily God's laws. After all, you don't hear of God speaking to the President of the U.S (not that the current Obamanation would listen), telling him what laws should be what. The words "God said" may have just been added. I don't necessarily agree with this, but it's lightened up for you atheists out there.
Does God hate gays? No, God doesn't hate people. To hate is to wish that they would go to hell, and the Bible points out clearly that He doesn't wish anyone to hell.
I don't mean to sound harsh if I do, nor do I intend to sound like a know-it-all. This is just my un-biased opinion on it. I can quote scripture if necessary, but I hope this isn't the case. I do have support for all of this, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that you'll have enough of an open mind to thoroughly consider it all. The support is logical or scriptural, so you should be able to figure it out yourself. But I'm not opposed to providing it for those too lazy to think about it.
|
|
|
Post by RabbitDrive on Jul 13, 2009 0:50:07 GMT
I didn't read this thread completely First of all, I'd suggest you do, as most of the points have been noted already. Homosexuality is natural. In fact, it's abundant in the natural world due to natural selection. Let me explain - Say there are more female Polar Bears than there are male. What tends to happen is that a female will mate with a male, then go and actually have the baby and have a "relationship" as it were with another female. Firstly, the last bit doesn't mean you shouldn't be gay so I'm going to dismiss that completely. As I have stated, homosexuality is natural. Homosexuality isn't a disability. I have no idea where you've managed to find these views from. Read about the animals. Same applies to humans. Also, what with stem cell research, I doubt the human race would die out. Religion has no argument against homosexuality. I have stated this in a previous post. If you'd be so kind as to actually read through the thread you will find this. So, basically what you're saying is that The Old Testament isn't right? IE - Defeated the whole point of him saying anything about gays? I agree with this statement whilst only underlining the fact I don't believe in a God, so I'll move on. And now I'll defend myself. I've read it and I think you're mainly wrong. I do take what people say into account but my opinion is unlikely to change.
|
|
|
Post by Evil Inclination on Jul 13, 2009 1:27:07 GMT
Let's assume that being gay is unnatural, even though it is natural, but for the purpose of this thread we'll say it's not. You say that being gay is not beneficial for the human race because they can't reproduce, for me I'd say this is a good thing. It's not like everyone is going to be gay, I think it's only one in every ten people so the other 90% of people can still reproduce. And this is actually too many because right now the world is far to over populated. And by some people being gay it actually helps this situation of reducing world population, I mean without some people being gay, the world would be so over populated we wouldn't be able to breathe.
|
|
Skipper
Beginner Novelist
Posts: 22
|
Post by Skipper on Jul 13, 2009 17:37:02 GMT
Really? The dissect-a-post reply? Ah, well, I'll play along.
Firstly, I am sure most of the points have been noted, but I don't like going in circles, so I just throw my entire argument to make sure no one uses excuses previously debunked.
I don't like quoting, but you need to explain this a little better. The female mates with the male, has the baby, and have a relationship as it were another female? A relationship with whom? The male or another female? Are you saying that it had a relationship with a male as though it was a female? But we never established that the females had relationships with one another. That aside, are there other species that practice homosexuality? Or is this the only example you can give? I'm not asking for loads of examples -- just proof that this isn't the only species (or one out of four). I will do a bit of research on homosexuality in animals. The problem I have with this is that I've never heard of or witnessed this myself, and I've lived around a lot of animals. I've never even heard this from an adult homosexual or atheist, so I question your sources. But maybe I'm just ignorant (It seems you've all ready decided this in your mind, though.).
Did you actually read my post, or just quote each paragraph and then reply? You completely left out the next sentence:
The last bit of the first paragraph was to explain that homosexuality was a choice -- not some kind of mental disorder or disease (I've heard that excuse before.).
Well of course the human race would die out. If no one reproduced because every human practiced homosexuality, then the next generation would never exist. Even if there were a few humans here and there, they'd still be homosexual, so they too would be unable to reproduce. I don't think stem cell research would help -- there wouldn't be anyone to research it once the current researchers died.
I said I didn't read it "completely," but that doesn't mean I read nothing. Did you really assume that I read nothing, let alone your last post? You know what assuming does. But when did religion suddenly need an argument against homosexuality? It's wrong, and unnatural. Anyone can see that, though not all want or bother to. The Bible wasn't written for the purpose of arguing with atheists over homosexuality or any other kind of stupidity. It never does explain why God exists, yet that doesn't mean that He doesn't.
No, Mr ADD. I'm saying that for an atheist, perhaps parts of the Bible aren't correct in condemning it, but what if all of the currently known Bible isn't necessarily divine? Then if there is a God who had the Bible written, He isn't necessarily unjust, as the Bible may have some kind of embellishment or faulty translation. The probability of this, however, is highly illogical, and I usually reserve this possibility for atheists.
So, I take it you're really into atheism then?
@evil
Really? One out of ten? I wouldn't agree with that. I've lived all over the U.S., having moved over ten times, so lets just say that I've personally know 400 people. I only know of two people who practice homosexuality, and at least for one of them, it's just a phase. Saying that one out of ten people is stretching things a bit too far. Perhaps where you live, the number is higher, but chances are, it's just a phase or chosen lifestyle for about half of them.
But let's just say that no one is gay. Everyone is straight. Is the world really going to become over populated? Here's a nice statistic for you. If everyone in the world coupled with someone of the opposite gender (disregarding the few remainders), and each couple had two children, everyone in the world would still have six acres of land to him/herself. That's not overpopulated. I doubt that ridding the world of homosexuality would be that terrible.
But now let's say that you're right, and the world does become overpopulated because all gays become straight. Natural selection (which does not disagree with the Bible) will take care of things with disease and starvation, just as it always does. Granted, many people would die because of overpopulation, but in the end, everything would return to normal, and the world would once again hold six billion humans.
That aside, I did answer the main question of the thread: Does God hate gays? You agreed. Now that that's out of the way, there's no need to continue arguing over the matter. I think it's a wrong and unnatural and that it's a choice. You don't. No one ever changes someone's mind over the internet, but if you really feel the need to continue, go ahead, but I won't guarantee that I'll reply.
|
|
|
Post by mossypne on Jul 13, 2009 17:54:45 GMT
God doesn't hate gays because god isn't real
|
|
|
Post by TomBeasley on Jul 13, 2009 18:29:06 GMT
No one ever changes someone's mind over the internet, but if you really feel the need to continue, go ahead, but I won't guarantee that I'll reply. I wholeheartedly disagree that you can't change someone's mind over the internet. Several of my views have been altered in this way.
|
|